s4e5.... the constant

LionQueen · It Doesn't Matter Who We Were Before ...

RE: s4e5.... the constant

lockesladyness · Date: Mar 1, 2008

3. Is the phrase "I'm not supposed to be here/We're not supposed to be here. " Spoken by Jack and Hurley in the future and now Desmond from 1996 significant to the arch of the story, like "See you in Another Life" or just an Easter egg?

i missed this one but caught the other!!

wait! i found my notes on this phrase!!! i took this to mean something like... fighting destiny: are you destined to be in specific places and times??? if you fight destiny, do you die? do you become unstuck in time and it drives you crazy? or is the opposite true... if you follow destiny, will it kill you? but you die at the time and place where you are supposed to die? if you fight destiny, can you die before your time? is there 'a time to live and a time to die'....??

the other phrase...
all thru-out this epi des used the phrase..'i've go to get back...' the same thing jack said about the island... jack seems to think the only way back there is to fly thru the vortex again... but what if the way back is an exposure to radiation/electromagnetic energy and to time travel back?

is there a connection to these two phrases???

LionQueen · It Doesn't Matter Who We Were Before ...

lockesladyness wrote:

3. Is the phrase "I'm not supposed to be here/We're not supposed to be here. " Spoken by Jack and Hurley in the future and now Desmond from 1996 significant to the arch of the story, like "See you in Another Life" or just an Easter egg?

i missed this one but caught the other!!

wait! i found my notes on this phrase!!! i took this to mean something like... fighting destiny: are you destined to be in specific places and times??? if you fight destiny, do you die? do you become unstuck in time and it drives you crazy? or is the opposite true... if you follow destiny, will it kill you? but you die at the time and place where you are supposed to die? if you fight destiny, can you die before your time? is there 'a time to live and a time to die'....??

the other phrase...
all thru-out this epi des used the phrase..'i've go to get back...' the same thing jack said about the island... jack seems to think the only way back there is to fly thru the vortex again... but what if the way back is an exposure to radiation/electromagnetic energy and to time travel back?

is there a connection to these two phrases???

So get an x-ray. HEHE. wink

Well, what I'm really asking is ... are the flashforwards really flashforwards or is the same thing happening to Jack and Hurley and soon to be Kate and Sayid?

Is Jack just a drunken fool babbling about his Dad upstairs or is he caught in a perpetual jump through time? Is Hurley insane?

lockesladyness · Date: Mar 1, 2008

LionQueen wrote:

lockesladyness wrote:

2. What happens when someoone dies while jumping to or from the future. Like, if Des had died on the freighter, would Des have died in 1996? If so, then would that have completly erased Des from the universe period?
_____________________________________________________________

no.
you cannot change the future. if you die now, or if you die in the future, it has no effect on your past. you always exist in the past. the bigger question is, does anyone ever die befoe they should? if he had died in 1996, would there be someone else to take over and carry on his destiny? do we have a set time period to be alive? or do we live until we complete our life's mission?

Yes, you can change the future. Des went forwards in time, found out about the freighter and the jumping through time thing, went back and told Penny to wait for his call on Christmas Eve.

But if Des from 1996 was in Des from 2004's body, and he died then how could he get back to 1996 if he's dead ? So, if he coudn't get back to 1996 because he's dead then how could he then exist in 1996?

how do we know it wasn't his destiny to ask penny this in 1996 so that he could go on in 2004? temporal dynamics is the most mind boggling thing to talk about but it does make one aware of the cause and effect of your behavior on the present and future...
i think what happened here was the touching of two points in time... the string theory of time... (quantum leap) deja vu... i know i am supposed to ask this because i need this information sometime in my future... and you squirrel the info away to be redeemed when needed...

lockesladyness · Date: Mar 1, 2008

LionQueen wrote:

lockesladyness wrote:

3. Is the phrase "I'm not supposed to be here/We're not supposed to be here. " Spoken by Jack and Hurley in the future and now Desmond from 1996 significant to the arch of the story, like "See you in Another Life" or just an Easter egg?

i missed this one but caught the other!!

wait! i found my notes on this phrase!!! i took this to mean something like... fighting destiny: are you destined to be in specific places and times??? if you fight destiny, do you die? do you become unstuck in time and it drives you crazy? or is the opposite true... if you follow destiny, will it kill you? but you die at the time and place where you are supposed to die? if you fight destiny, can you die before your time? is there 'a time to live and a time to die'....??

the other phrase...
all thru-out this epi des used the phrase..'i've go to get back...' the same thing jack said about the island... jack seems to think the only way back there is to fly thru the vortex again... but what if the way back is an exposure to radiation/electromagnetic energy and to time travel back?

is there a connection to these two phrases???

So get an x-ray. HEHE.

Well, what I'm really asking is ... are the flashforwards really flashforwards or is the same thing happening to Jack and Hurley and soon to be Kate and Sayid?

Is Jack just a drunken fool babbling about his Dad upstairs or is he caught in a perpetual jump through time? Is Hurley insane?

i don't think we have been given enough info to answer this as yet... but i do like the idea that jack and co. are also time jumping and haven't found a constant

lockesladyness · Date: Mar 1, 2008

LionQueen wrote:

Daniel didn't say it had to be a person, btw. Something that exists in both times.
He couldn't contact Penny on the island prior to the freighter. Penny didn't exist on the island. therefore, she couldn't have been his constant in Flashes.

Des is Daniels constant because he exists in both times. Now, should Daniel jump to a period beyond when Des was lost at sea and before they met on the island, Des couldn't be his constant.

-- Edited by LionQueen at 13:22, 2008-03-01

are you thinking that you have to be able to touch, feel, talk to, your constant? because i don't... to me it is the thought of that person or thing that keeps you grounded... to me penny did exist while des was on the island... in his heart and in his mind and in his very soul!!

des being daniel's constant is what's interesting.. des gave him th info needed to consolidate his time jumping theory and make it real... how close do they become?
at what point in your life do you meet your constant? when you do, does it seem as tho you are completed and this relationship has existed forever past, present and future??

Desmond_Pen · Date: Mar 1, 2008

You have to have something familiar to hang on to. Otherwise, when your conscience is thrown into another time and you don't have something that you recognize in that time , you can't get back.

Remember when Charlie seemed to not know where he was at first after the hatch implosion? He seemed so casual, like he's just been on a stroll.

And Michael, he fought not wanting to shoot Libby and Anna Lucia, but maybe someone had told him that they weren't supposed to be there. He was acting so odd after being with the Others.

Libby seemed rather spaced out when she was in the ward with Hurley, and when she gave the boat to Desmond. Maybe she was travelling to different times in her mind too.

Desmond_Pen · Date: Mar 1, 2008

And poor Daniel is so forgetful, he wouldn't remember what his constant was if he didn't write it down.

Desmond_Pen · Date: Mar 1, 2008

And the whispers they hear? That's probably bits of consciousnesses floating around. Smokey probably picks up on those and manifests them.

Desmond_Pen · Date: Mar 1, 2008

LionQueen wrote:

So get an x-ray. HEHE.
Well, what I'm really asking is ... are the flashforwards really flashforwards or is the same thing happening to Jack and Hurley and soon to be Kate and Sayid?

Is Jack just a drunken fool babbling about his Dad upstairs or is he caught in a perpetual jump through time? Is Hurley insane?

I wondered about that. Why can't he find a way back? No scientists around to help him figure out a formula to reach the Island? Is the Island still there?

LionQueen · It Doesn't Matter Who We Were Before ...

Desmond_Pen wrote:

LionQueen wrote:

So get an x-ray. HEHE.
Well, what I'm really asking is ... are the flashforwards really flashforwards or is the same thing happening to Jack and Hurley and soon to be Kate and Sayid?

Is Jack just a drunken fool babbling about his Dad upstairs or is he caught in a perpetual jump through time? Is Hurley insane?

I wondered about that. Why can't he find a way back? No scientists around to help him figure out a formula to reach the Island? Is the Island still there?

Maybe he doesn't know what he needs ... or maybe he does. Maybe their constant is on the island.

lockesladyness · Date: Mar 1, 2008

Desmond_Pen wrote:

And the whispers they hear? That's probably bits of consciousnesses floating around. Smokey probably picks up on those and manifests them.

i like that!!!!!

lockesladyness · Date: Mar 1, 2008

LionQueen wrote:

lockesladyness wrote:

2. What happens when someoone dies while jumping to or from the future. Like, if Des had died on the freighter, would Des have died in 1996? If so, then would that have completly erased Des from the universe period?
_____________________________________________________________

no.
you cannot change the future. if you die now, or if you die in the future, it has no effect on your past. you always exist in the past. the bigger question is, does anyone ever die befoe they should? if he had died in 1996, would there be someone else to take over and carry on his destiny? do we have a set time period to be alive? or do we live until we complete our life's mission?

Yes, you can change the future. Des went forwards in time, found out about the freighter and the jumping through time thing, went back and told Penny to wait for his call on Christmas Eve.

But if Des from 1996 was in Des from 2004's body, and he died then how could he get back to 1996 if he's dead ? So, if he coudn't get back to 1996 because he's dead then how could he then exist in 1996?

Yes, you can change the future.des did not change the future when he gave the phone number. des was time jumping in 1996 (he woke up in the army cot and said he had been in a helicopter). his 2004 consciousness got penny's number in 1996. he told her he was from the future. he knew he needed this info and was supposed to survive. his 2004 consciousness fulfilled his destiny.

But if Des from 1996 was in Des from 2004's body, and he died then how could he get back to 1996 if he's dead ? So, if he coudn't get back to 1996 because he's dead then how could he then exist in 1996?

the past is already written and cannot be changed either. time has already occurred. if he were to die in 2004, with or without his 1996 consciousness, he would still live in 1996 simply because he was alive then...

Desmond_Pen · Date: Mar 1, 2008

lockesladyness wrote:

Desmond_Pen wrote:

And the whispers they hear? That's probably bits of consciousnesses floating around. Smokey probably picks up on those and manifests them.

i like that!!!!!

lockesladyness wrote:

the past is already written and cannot be changed either. time has already occurred. if he were to die in 2004, with or without his 1996 consciousness, he would still live in 1996 simply because he was alive then...

Thanks!

Ooh! Maybe we haven't seen the last of Charlie, or Mikhail, or Klugh. Or their consciousnesses are running around.

-- Edited by Desmond_Pen at 19:05, 2008-03-01