Seaon 3 for the Bad Boy of the show will see almost the opposite from him for a good part of the season. I'm thinking his connection with Kate will happen, and also that he'll be showing his willingness to do what the "Others" ask of him to help keep her safe. There is an inevitable confrontation between himself and Zeke to come at some point also. I think he will also be the one that helps keep Jack on the path of good or at least keeping him from falling in with the "others".

LL that's a very interesting way to look at him. I do have to say that he has to have more good in him than he's given credit for. Just going on the fact that the "others" only take the "good" people proves that part right there. The only other reason they would take him is that they deem him a threat. if that was the case then I'd have to say the "others" are complete idiots. They take Jack, Kate, and Sawyer, but leave Sayid, and Eko behind? I'd have to think they'd want them gone also right? What about Ana Lucia. Ana wasn't dead at the time that they gave michael the list of names. Wouldn't you want the ones who are trained to fight taken away from the group? It would automatically take away the groups leaders in a fight situation.

love the picture!! snootch should use it!!!

Why does everyone assume possible love interest for Jack is an other means that Jack will be lured to the Dark side. What if she is like Alex ?  Or what if she decieves and pretends to be like Alex ? 

Sawyer has good in him, yes. I agree. But they don't want him too good, they've said it many times. So, he will do what's best for him in the long run. The raft showed he'll come head to head with Kate if he has to to get what he wants. But he's not easily lead by the nose - he'll never turn to the others.  Although he may do what needs to be done to keep Kate safe, and maybe even Jack. 

I'm telling you, if ANYONE is capable of being turned, it's Locke. Look at how easily Henry got to him. 

I myself have to stick with the thoughts that at the end of the day Sawyer will always do what's best for himself. Look at the Love he had for the one lady that he was coning with. He gave that up to keep himself safe (maybe for her a bit to) and for the $$$ it meant to bring him. his biggest fault though is that he does care, and it makes for major conflicts within himself on how to deal with what's in his heart, and what's a instinct to him.

lockesladyness wrote:

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the only thing that seems to stop sawyer from the con is............  children..... he can't hurt them the way he was hurt...

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fgured i'd jump in here cause you are talking about my favoirte character LOL

that is so true LL it's one of his wearker spots is children, and Kate of course, who we know he loves now btw. And remember he walked away from thet con at great risk to himself, the loan shark was not messing around when he said could make him suffer greatly. He had to bring that money back but toatlly forgot when he saw that kid.

That fact that he does have a heart and a concience does make far more tragic to me, cause he still does these things to others and more importatntly to himself. It's important to understand that alot of the things he does do are designed to hurt himself more than others, being the mascohist that he it and all. He's been wanting to die since he was kid most likely too, typical behavour of a person who lived through what he did as a kid. 

And you guys are right in the sense that he is about survival and protecting himself, the reason for that being that he's essentially had to take care of himself since he was a kid. No one else ever took care of him, so he essentially had to grow up very quickly and pretty much survive on his own. Consdiering the trauama early in life and the life that he's had to lead it's amazing he cares at all about other people, but he does and it's an eternall confilict between what he considers to be neccesary selfiishness and own buried compassion. Which is something he's seen very little of his life.

He conned Cassidy and walked off with the money caused he believe what Gordy said about that being all he is. I don't think it was every really about money with him, it might have been more about not only the thrill that it allowed him to feel, considering he very rarely felt anything at all, but the need to pull one over on these women, who like his own mother, were willing to betray their husband at the drop of a hat, if that women in CM was any indication. We are of the opinon those cons were more about getting back at his mother i in some subconcious way. And at the end of the epi it was patently clear that he truly believes himself to be a bad person, whose never done a good thing in his life, which is untrue cause we've seen him do good things. Things that when he does them, he does them without thought, it's purely on instinct.

wow i didn't mean that to be that long LOL

LL..I have to dissagree..There is a act that can be done out of selflessness without anything that caomes back for the person doing it. And Sawyer actually did this in season 2.

He held Kate. IN the hatch when she needed a shoulder he pulled her in and allowed her a place to cry. This action is selfless, and wasn't anything more than him being a caring person.

i don't know why people have trouble giving him any credit for a selfless act.. and if you watch that scene, she didn't intsigate, she tunred away in fact. I consider that to be a very selfless act on his part. Comforting someone, puttting aside how YOU feel about the situation, all your guilt and anger, remember, he thought she'd screwed Jack. He could've walked away and wallowed in his own anger and grief but he took her in his arms and took care of her, he put someone elses pain above his own at that moment. And that is selfless. Sawyer has done good things, but he dosen't believe he's good that's the problem. No one has been around in his life to tell him otherwise. And when he held her, that was a good thing.

i can't fathom a contention that he's done NOTHING selfless ever and that he is somehow incapable of the means to get better. This show is about redemption and if he was beyond there would be no reason for him to be there.  And the very fact that he felt guilt and pain over what happened with Ana, put the responsibillity on himself there shows his conflict. He hates everything that he is and is constantly at war with himself, hiding that James part that keeps coming out, annoyingly to him. The part that does good things, the part that is good, and to say there's nothing there is a hopeless way of llooking at him.

Part of the beauty of this show is that it shows these flawed characters, going through adversity and finding parts of themselves that they didn't know existed. Finding out there is more to them than what they thought, and that you are capable of change, and that you can still love and care about others. And that it may be hard, and a long way to go but you can and will get there eventually. That goes for everyone, even seemingly 'selfish' people that find themselves doing selfless things without thought. That's why i watch it, cause of characters like Sawyer, who can get better and still stay true their essential nature.

 

-- Edited by fricksgurl75 at 22:03, 2006-09-09

-- Edited by fricksgurl75 at 22:04, 2006-09-09

FMA_AishaKitty wrote:

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Sawyer reading to Claire's baby was just about the sweetest thing I've ever seen
he'll probly surprise everyone and save the day one of these epis 

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and i can't see how getting shot and nearly dying trying to keep them from taking Walt couldn't be considered selfless, there was no gain in that.

Neither was there any gain from telling Jack about his father either. That to me should be consider a selfless act, i can't find anything selfiish in that at all. 

I consider that hug to be selfless, regardless of anyone would  consider his motives to be, he put aside whatever he felt and took care of her, that means something.

and definatly, the reading to Aaron. that's for bringing that up FMA

 

snootch2danootch wrote:

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Well LL...there you go. There's the selfless moment from Sawyer. What could he have been looking to gain by reading to Aaron?

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his motivation is simple... he wanted it quiet so he could get back to what he wanted to do... when charlie first discovered his voiuce soothed aaron what did sawyer do?? he ran!!!

snootch2danootch wrote:

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I am looking at these things from 2 sides, and as i look at the Walt one I have to think that he also had his own safety in mind. When he first pulls the gun it is in part to help Walt, but just as much because he felt he was in danger (which he was ...raft go Boom)

As for the Jack father thing I think it was again part him trying to maybe be nice, but considering the tension between them both it could also be looked at as him taking a dig at Jack. Look at the fact that Sawyer had seen his dad right before his death, and Jack hadn't seen him for how long??

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see i don't that father thing as a dig at Jack, that was geuinely nice thing to on his part. I don't know why it's hard for people to give him credit for the good thngs he does, that don't always benefit him. Even Jack fans love that scene and Sawyer for doing it.

As far as the raft maybe you guys didn't notice but Sawyer dosen't have that much regard for his own life, i doubt he was trying to save himself there. In fact one of the reasons he went was cause he thought it was a suicide mission.

And he wants the redemption, but actively pushes it away cause he doesn't feel he deserves it.

I'm not trying to put the guy up for sainthood but for god sakes give him some credit for doing some good things without direct benefit to himself. It gets annoying that any good thing he does can be turned around as something inherently selfish here.

and i for godsakes i run from crying babies too, but he did agree to do it..

-- Edited by fricksgurl75 at 18:16, 2006-09-11

FMA_AishaKitty wrote:

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did anyone see the exclusive clip on abc?

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the one with Sawyer in the cage? ya i saw it!!!!!!!! damn Others

FMA_AishaKitty wrote:

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KateisLost wrote:

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FMA_AishaKitty wrote:

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did anyone see the exclusive clip on abc?

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the one with Sawyer in the cage? ya i saw it!!!!!!!! damn Others

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yeah

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others