Black rock

voltsandamps · Gods new Mod.

Black rock

lockesladyness · Date: Jun 10, 2006

this is a great topic.. and after my sleep..and after my next shift.. i shall have thought about it enough to put something coherant here... thanks volts!!

voltsandamps · Gods new Mod.

I am inclined to think there are a lot of things we don't know about the black rock, such as is the radio tower actually one of the ship's masts and is there another hatch/cavern under it, and where is it located in relation to the various hatches we allready know of? At the present slow rate of dispensing information i can see how they figure to keep the show running for seven years or maybe even more. It would be very interesting to see a map of the island with the black rock, the caves, danielles' hideout, the waterfall and lagoon, and the beechcraft superimposed over the hatch/caves location. It would make it much easier to visualize relationships and distances between objects. If you remember when locke and boone dug around the hatch the sides of the shaft were ribbed and the ribs were just about the size of the drill they found in the black rock's hold. I suspect when the shafts were dug they drilled a circle of holes and filled them with concrete and then excavated the spoil from inside the circle. When they first entered the cave/cavern where the computers were located you could see what appeared to be the base of a tower outside the windows but that appears to be totally forgotten and ignored. If there is supposed to be a an electro-magnetic barrier around the island how come people away from the island are receiving the radio signal so well? That is just one more thing about this show that makes you sit back and blink and scratch your head.

lockesladyness · Date: Jun 11, 2006

i still think that somehow and someway, the island was built under the black rock... that the hatches were created and then the island put around them... and in the process, the island was built up under the ship, placing it on the highest point on the island...
how is this possible??? i don't know... but then i don't know how the pyramids were built either....

Sir Snootch · "Gamers don't sleep. They just nap between levels."

From what I remember the Black Rock wasn't up on the high point. I agree that it may be the central local of the whole deal, but I also think that the hatches are all part of an interconnecting series of tunnels. They just haven't found the connecting tunnels yet.

voltsandamps · Gods new Mod.

there is a distinct possibility that the incident, whatever it was, resulted in something similar to the blast doors closing and blocking off the connecting tunnels. I have felt from scratch that the whole shebang was interconnected by tunnels and conduit chases. If there is only one source of power for the whole works there would have to be a way to disperse the energy around to the various locations. I wish i had a better feel for where things are located in relation to each other. I am going to try to find the screen caps showing the two big jets of water shooting out of the side of the mountains. I would like to locate them in relation to the hatches/caverns. If being exposed on the surface was hazardous to your health haveing the tunnels as a way to get around would have been desireable and needed. I suspect the whole durn island is more or less hollow and mostly unexplored so far. I also expect to find a sea level cavern/hatch where the others stashed their boat and maybe lived there too. They almost certainly have a place to store stuff such as fuel for their boat and misc. material. Our losties show a strange lack of curiosity about the cavern and what's where in the other places they know of. If i felt i was being threatened i would be breaking my neck to explore and locate things to help me defend myself. I never did understand dannielle's hideout, it had a screen roof and at least one wall, with as much rain as they get her place would have been flooded regularly, kinda hard on the stuff she had stored in there, and not much in the way of shelter. enough for now.

Sir Snootch · "Gamers don't sleep. They just nap between levels."

Ok now...After reading that I had a thought. I've thought it wierd that since getting into the hatch that they have given up the cave. I know the hatch is closer, but you'd think that they would have gone back at some point for one reason or another. What if there is a connection to the two? Seems unlikely, but so does a Polar bear on a tropical island. How about if there is an way to get into the "Tunnel System" from there. We never did see how much they searched the whole thing in detail. It is closer to a central area of the island.

voltsandamps · Gods new Mod.

It is possible there may be a connection between the caves and the cavern/tunnels but i don't have a clue as to how to find out. It would seem logical if everything was interconnected. It would certainly help if we could control the behavior of one or more of the losties, we could then seek answers to our questions. As it is it may be years before they get around to answering our questions and i can't think of any way to hurry the process. I still don't understand the purpose of the orginal hatch window, whether it was intended to look out of the shaft or look in or both. It may have been intended to let light in to illuminate the shaft, who knows. So many questions, so few answers.

Smidge · Just Getting Started.

I wonder if the original hatch was just that part that we saw Locke dig around. And originally there was only the one door, with the ladder for access.

Then someone came along and remodeled it, creating another door and adding rooms.

voltsandamps · Gods new Mod.

hi smidge, welcome aboard the good ship black rock. I am of mixed emotions about your questions, one thing that bothers me is there was no handle on the outside of the hatch, no way of opening it from the outside, which severely limits the useage of the door (hatch). I rather suspect it was intended as an emergency exit from the tunnels and/or cavern. I have no clue why someone cut and removed half of the ladder in the shaft, perhaps they needed a ladder someplace else. We never did figure out the purpose of the window in the hatch, it presents a weak spot in an otherwise strong and robust door. When we first saw the hatch door after it was blown off the shaft there was no sign of anything in the way of a retainer, nothing to hold it down and in place. Later pictures showed some straps and/or bars on the underside of the door as retainers which were not in the orginal pics, so i suspect the writers do read and react to our posts. You must bear in mind however it would have been a relatively simple matter to replace one hatch door with another, if it became necessary, so we can't assume that the door we saw was the only one ever on the shaft.. If i wanted to bar someone from climbing down into the hatch i would have removed the top half of the ladder, not the bottom, or better yet the whole thing. take care.

voltsandamps · Gods new Mod.

I wish someone, of our losties would return to the black rock and examine it much more thoroughly with an eye towards what is in it, how did it get there, what was it used for? I realize the purpose of a ship is to go from point a to point b on water but there has to be a reason for it to do so. Most sailing ships of that time had a brig or a place to keep someone who got out of line so the chains don't impress me greatly. If there had been a dozen or more sets of chains that would have raised my eyebrows a bit. As to the drill bits i would consider them useless without some powerfull way of turning them, even drilling into soft ground requires considerable horsepower. I would expect to find at least one a-frame type tower with some form of prime mover for power generation to lift and hold and turn the drill bits, otherwise they are useless. Some of the other stuff in the hold needs to be closely examined also. There was quite a bit of stuff i didn't get a good look at so have no opinion as to what it was used for. Ships of that time frame tended to be self-sufficent, carrying what ever they needed to make repairs and also what they needed to perform their mission, whatever it was. They couldn't run over to the corner gas station if they broke something. I would not be surprised to find spare masts, sails, ropes and/or chain, barrels to store water and food, and tools of one sort or another in the hold. The hold on most sailing ships was a sort of warehouse/ storage shed which kept stuff out of the way. There also must be quarters for the persons who sailed the ship somewhere aboard. Usually they had a blacksmith and a sailmaker as part of the crew. The whole concept of the ship begs for further investigation and research by someone.

LionQueen · It Doesn't Matter Who We Were Before ...

Hi Jim! It is an interesting subject and I really need to see all the eppies from 1st season cause I missed much about the black rock too.

But I wanted to say hi and welcome to the tree house! I enjoyed reading your post in lady's night out last night about the cat and everything. Did you come form the ABC boards? I don't remmeber seeing you there. Anyway, welcome again!

voltsandamps · Gods new Mod.

Thanks for the welcome even if i have been here for a while, yes i did migrate over from the general lost board, i had the mining thread in several variations on there for two seasons. I think it is a crying shame that the black rock has been so neglected for some time now. Too bad someone doesn't start a lost game where you can control one or more of the losties, get them to do various things, it would help speed up investigations of various items so far neglected. At the current pace it will probably be four or five years before we find out more about the black rock. I have known lln, snootch, slpy, and several others for quite some time, so i'm not a complete stranger here. CMSmith, JanetJune, and several others from the general board have stopped by but there is not enough daytime activity yet to keep them here, allthough that may change soon. We shall see, won't we?

Island_Reigns · Yay Lost!!

The writers have said they will pursue the history of the island. The four-toed foot statue was a hint at the archaeology of the island. So hopefully this history will include the Black Rock. There has been talk of an Island-centric episode, but as you've said, they might not get around to it for a while.

I think it does some good to post your ideas and questions in the ABC Podcast section and also at thefuselage.com in the "Questions for the Creative Team" section. The writers seem to care about what the audience wants, but I think ABC executives get in the way sometimes. Damon Lindelof has said that they throw things in to the story that are a "wink" at the audience. It might help if they know that a lot of us want to know more about the Black Rock.

lockesladyness · Date: Jun 14, 2006

a ship... an old ship... in the middle of an island.... filled with mining equipment and skeletons in chains... how long has widmore industries and hanso foundation been in existence??? this ship indeed needs to be exploered more and it will be interesting to see who does this... danielle in a flashback??? claire??... that would be interesting... charlie? what would he be looking for? or sun... maybe as a way to justify and discover what her pregnancy is about...
kind of personalizes the ship a bit, doesn't it???

voltsandamps · Gods new Mod.

Lady et all, I think the only way the black rock will get back in the limelight is if a situation developes where the losties need something that they know is stashed in the ship, I will admit i don't have a clue what that could be but that's nothing new. They would have to have a credible reason to return and explore further. Perhaps they may be in need of more dynamite or some of the tools and/or materials stashed in the hold.

lockesladyness · Date: Jun 17, 2006

if they need to rescue locke, eko and desmond, do you think they will use more dynamite or the drills that are there in the ship??? it would be intereseting if somehow they were able to get some of the mining eqipment and start some drilling... wonder what else would be found???

voltsandamps · Gods new Mod.

I would imagine whatever they come up with will be so far out in left field it will be something we would never have thought of, the show tends to run that way. I was trying to picture who knows about the black rock who is not a captive or possibly injured in the cavern(hatch). Hurley is the only one i can think of at the moment. His reaction to finding out mikey shot libby just about floored me, he didn't seem to care, i would have thought he would have broken mikey into little pieces. Characters in this show never seem to react to stimuli the way you would expect. It seems the writers are trying to project hurley as a wimp for whatever reasons.

lockesladyness · Date: Jun 17, 2006

not too sure that hurley is a wimp.... but his reaction was unusual... hmmmm... charlie also had a strange reaction to the implosion... could there be a connection??

voltsandamps · Gods new Mod.

It's hard to say, maybe the writers are heading in a different or strange direction, who knows, maybe they have some thing specific in mind for one or both. I generally don't get into this motivation stuff so i can't help with that.

Sir Snootch · "Gamers don't sleep. They just nap between levels."

lockesladyness wrote:

not too sure that hurley is a wimp.... but his reaction was unusual... hmmmm... charlie also had a strange reaction to the implosion... could there be a connection??

I didn't think about that. I wonder if it could be that at some point we'll find out that indeed him and Hurley were (like i've mentioned in the past) that they along with some of the other survivors are indeed just "along for the ride". Not meant to be there, but couldn't be avoided.

lockesladyness · Date: Jun 18, 2006

let me sleep on this and see if an answer comes...

GrayLensman · See you in another life!!!

Island_Reigns wrote:

The writers have said they will pursue the history of the island.
An episode or episodes where the island gets the flashbacks. Now that is a great idea. Can't see it happening for season 3. Just seems to soon. But it sure would be nice to get some more background on the island rather than just teasers like the statue, the Black Rock, the trunk with WWII items, Adam and Eve, polar bears, horses etc. Would be great to see how this all comes together.

voltsandamps · Gods new Mod.

I don't have any idea when or how they will explore the island and/or the black rock. For sure nothing is going to happen 'till fall. I think if we try to second guess the writers we are just spinning our wheels to no purpose. I have no idea what or where the plot is heading in season three, I am losing interest in the show more and more after each episode, i record it on dvd, minus commercials, and then never play it back, lack of interest i guess. We will just have to sit back and wait for the fall start-up and see what happens.

Sir Snootch · "Gamers don't sleep. They just nap between levels."

GrayLensman wrote:

Island_Reigns wrote: The writers have said they will pursue the history of the island. An episode or episodes where the island gets the flashbacks. Now that is a great idea. Can't see it happening for season 3. Just seems to soon. But it sure would be nice to get some more background on the island rather than just teasers like the statue, the Black Rock, the trunk with WWII items, Adam and Eve, polar bears, horses etc. Would be great to see how this all comes together.

I think that there could be time for some Island background in season 3..but not till the shows after the break. They should put all the focus on what's going on with the 3 captives, and also on how Hurley reacts when he is not only back at the beach/hatch, but also what is he thinking /doing during his walk back all alone.

voltsandamps · Gods new Mod.

I've had a nagging little thought in the back of my mind for some time now. I wonder if the others are the descendants of the orginal black rock crew. If in fact the ship was washed up on the island by a tsunami they would have been marooned on the island and had no way to get anyplace else. That could account for the hole smashed in the ships side, a way for them to get on and off of the ship. There would have been a fair amount of food and tools and whatever aboard the ship, enough to get them started at least. We don't have a clue concerning the age of the ship, it could be ancient or it could be relatively modern. If the dynamite came with the ship it could not have been there very long, the nitroglycerin would have leached out of the binder and leaked down to the bottom of the case if it had. Sure wish ladymucker was still around, she was an expert on mining and/or explosives. Back in my earlier farm living days we used dynamite regularly to blow out stumps and break up big fieldstones and nobody kept their dynamite for more than five years at the outside. I would guess, and it's only a guess, in 15 to 40 years the nitro would leach out to the point it would leave the sticks with just the binder left in them, depending on how and where it's stored, temp. and humidity, etc.

Janetjune · it's now or never....

I would like to go in another direction about the ship. Maybe Hanso has been going on for a lot longer than we think, but the method of communicating (no movie for introduction/orientation, etc) was not available because they hadn't been invented yet, back in the days of the "Black Rock". I seem to remember a book or a movie about an organization of assassins (for the good of God and Country) being handed down to the next generation. Why not Hanso. And as time progressed, so did the experiments. This does not necessarily get handed down father to son, but someone trustworthy. The ship could have just been one of the methods of transportation that got caught up in a monsoon and shipwrecked. The people chained chould have been losties who interferred like our losties, but back then. The ship would make a good prison.

Sir Snootch · "Gamers don't sleep. They just nap between levels."

JJ that is an interesting way to look at it, and with this show you never know. I'll have to ponder this a bit, and see where it takes me.

Sir Snootch · "Gamers don't sleep. They just nap between levels."

Ok..JJ..From your idea that the "others" could be anscestors of the Black rock people. I can see that being possible, but only with a few new people being brought in from time to time to keep the bloodlines from getting to thin. This would be another reason for the people the "others " take people like they do. Get them into their place. Convince them that their "Utopian" way of life is the right life, and make them part of the greater group that we may not even know about yet. A whole society that's hidden from the world.

And as for the people they don't take I don't think they take them prisoners...I think at some point they either find a way to "help" them off the island, or just wait for nature to take it's course. Seeing as how they have their place of tranquility they have nothing but time, and can just wait them out.

The survivors being collected to keep the bloodlines rotating (no inbreeding) would also explain why they wanted Aaron. Not sure where Walt plays into any of this though.

lockesladyness · Date: Jul 4, 2006

the others as ancestors is interesting but aren't they just a bit too well educated?? they seem to know too much about the world outside the island to have been raised and bred there... if they had been isolated from the outside world, over the decades, they would have developed their own nuances to their language... developed their own accents... yet they still seem to be very diverse in cultures and attitudes and traditions....