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lockesladyness


I cried, "Oh, Lady Midnight, I fear that you grow old, the stars eat your body and the wind makes you cold." "If we cry now," she said, "it will just be ignored."

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Date: Nov 8, 2006
s3 cliffhanger...epi6 'i do'
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just exactly what do i do? make vows and break them? anyone notice in the opening scene with ben how he seemed to be almost humble when asking jack about the operation and talking about death??


this was an involved epi and i work tonite...won't get to finish til morning but will go thru some thoughts now...


the sawyer/kate love scene... did she do it out of love or was it one of these...'if i had one nite left would you...' kind of things... she never said she loves him... was it just pity??? sorrow at the thought of losing him? that's not real love....


did she really love kevin??? did she really want a life as harriet nelson or donna reed?? the apron was a bt of overkill...



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ladymod
lockesladyness


I cried, "Oh, Lady Midnight, I fear that you grow old, the stars eat your body and the wind makes you cold." "If we cry now," she said, "it will just be ignored."

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the way that ben and juliet offered jack the option of surgery... cold...emotionless...blocking feelings it seemed... was this just a test of morality? a test to see if he developed some kind of empathy? concern... for/about his patient or life? get rid of the god complex?


he does the operation after seeing kate and sawyer together... in spite of he criminal nature..kate is still easily manipulated by people... her buttons are easily pushed... but jack... still playing god? still being the one who has to save? at any cost? is killing ben worth the freedom of a woman he cares about who he knows has betrayed him? ...for whatever reason she betrayed him...


his decision is to obtain her freedom... self-sacrifice or playing god? i am in command???



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ladymod
lockesladyness


I cried, "Oh, Lady Midnight, I fear that you grow old, the stars eat your body and the wind makes you cold." "If we cry now," she said, "it will just be ignored."

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Date: Nov 8, 2006
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alex....


the slingshot remind you of danielle??? just like her mom.... and she asked about ben... were ben and danielle married? does this go back to the idea that danniellle was once part of the group and she left...failed behavior mod experiment made her crazy... she had the baby... it was taken from a crazed mother and...taken back to dad??? ben and danielle?  ben asked about alex... why? fatherly concern? alex was taken home who knows where she is now..... interesting lines there tonite... more clues as to connections....



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ladymod
lockesladyness


I cried, "Oh, Lady Midnight, I fear that you grow old, the stars eat your body and the wind makes you cold." "If we cry now," she said, "it will just be ignored."

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Date: Nov 8, 2006
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sawyer... over and over again tonite wanting to sacrifice himself for kate...or just to die?? 'my life ain't worth saving...'   he deviantly faces the gun of pickett... and then the moment is snatched away from him by jack... what a way to show love... i wiill die in front of you kate but don't watch... mixed messages... there is no way off this island, kate...i wasn't going to tell you...i wanted you to have hope.... again an interesting way to show love...


in the flashback they said monica was known for he honesty and devotion... yet that was a lie... sawyer lies too to show his devotion to kate.... both  dishonest... does loving someone mean that you need honesty? is protecting by lying love? or do you allow a person to experience and grow to show love? ...even if it means being hurt... and you have to handle the hurt together to cement your love???  so many ways to look at this...


please respond to this if no other question!!!



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ladymod
lockesladyness


I cried, "Oh, Lady Midnight, I fear that you grow old, the stars eat your body and the wind makes you cold." "If we cry now," she said, "it will just be ignored."

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Date: Nov 8, 2006
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i haven't had time to think about locke and company on the south side of the island... willl do that at work and devote the morning posts to that....


this was a complicated episode.... still much to sort out and i think i need the nite to do so....


there is a picket/sawyer thought in theories section... just fyi!



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ladymod
Sir Snootch


"Gamers don't sleep. They just nap between levels."

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lockesladyness wrote:the sawyer/kate love scene... did she do it out of love or was it one of these...'if i had one nite left would you...' kind of things... she never said she loves him... was it just pity??? sorrow at the thought of losing him? that's not real love....


That's sort of the feeling I got out of it. Notice her surprise, and also the hope that came into her eyes when Jack was on the radio? Makes you wonder a bit still if there's still hope (I have to think so) for the Jaters?



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Sir Snootch


"Gamers don't sleep. They just nap between levels."

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lockesladyness wrote:alex....the slingshot remind you of danielle??? just like her mom.... and she asked about ben... were ben and danielle married? does this go back to the idea that danniellle was once part of the group and she left...failed behavior mod experiment made her crazy... she had the baby... it was taken from a crazed mother and...taken back to dad??? ben and danielle?  ben asked about alex... why? fatherly concern? alex was taken home who knows where she is now..... interesting lines there tonite... more clues as to connections....


But did you think about Ben's words right before he went under? I now firmly believe that Ben is Danielle's ex, and he is the father of Alex. Or at the very least he was the one that raised her after Danielle was cast off from the main group of others.


 



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Sir Snootch


"Gamers don't sleep. They just nap between levels."

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lockesladyness wrote:in the flashback they said monica was known for he honesty and devotion... yet that was a lie... sawyer lies too to show his devotion to kate.... both  dishonest... does loving someone mean that you need honesty? is protecting by lying love? or do you allow a person to experience and grow to show love? ...even if it means being hurt... and you have to handle the hurt together to cement your love???  so many ways to look at this...please respond to this if no other question!!!

This is an interseting thought. I will have to put some thought into this before making a post worthy of the question.

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KateisLost


Moonlight mod

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snootch2danootch wrote:



That's sort of the feeling I got out of it. Notice her surprise, and also the hope that came into her eyes when Jack was on the radio? Makes you wonder a bit still if there's still hope (I have to think so) for the Jaters?



i got the feeling out of it that the reason that Kate looked a little hopeful when she heard Jack on the radio was because that meant that there might be some hope that Sawyer would not get shot

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LionQueen


It Doesn't Matter Who We Were Before ...

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Noone picked up on the fact that Jack wasn't on jacobs list?? Who is JACOB???

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Island_Reigns


Yay Lost!!

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LionQueen wrote:

Noone picked up on the fact that Jack wasn't on jacobs list?? Who is JACOB???

Yeah I noticed that! I was wondering the same thing!

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LionQueen


It Doesn't Matter Who We Were Before ...

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They're all over it on ABC. But I think they're missing which list. It's more than likely the list that "Him" would be upset that Ethan didn't follow way in the beginning.

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LionQueen


It Doesn't Matter Who We Were Before ...

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We always knew Ben wasn't the "big" boss.

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Island_Reigns


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All I was thinking about was "who's Jacob" and I didn't even catch the fact that Ben brought Jack there just to fix him.

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Sir Snootch


"Gamers don't sleep. They just nap between levels."

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LionQueen wrote:

Noone picked up on the fact that Jack wasn't on jacobs list?? Who is JACOB???

Lion I actaully did also, but I forgot to ask everyone about that.

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Sir Snootch


"Gamers don't sleep. They just nap between levels."

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Island_Reigns wrote:

All I was thinking about was "who's Jacob" and I didn't even catch the fact that Ben brought Jack there just to fix him.


Hee Hee.... I still get a personal kick out of this. I've been saying since season 1 that they were there for a reason. I still think that not all of them were though.


I'm going to start a thread with my list of who was brought there, and who wasn't anything but an inoccent bystander.



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Sir Snootch


"Gamers don't sleep. They just nap between levels."

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OK... I was weeding through images at LOST-Media, and ran into this pic from the last epi. WTF is that in the lower right corner? Did someone on the crew forget to pick up their garbage after lunch? It looks like a plastic garbage bag.






Click to view full size image



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Sir Snootch


"Gamers don't sleep. They just nap between levels."

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OK..I scared myself again...... I feel like The MisFiT againIs there a reason that in two back to back images (screen caps from lost-media) that they could mess up the placement of the hole in the knee of Sawyers pants?


http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1196&pos=793


Here's the two images closer up.


1st one Click to view full size image


2nd one


Click to view full size image


Is there a reason for this? Was it put in on purpose?



-- Edited by snootch2danootch at 06:40, 2006-11-09

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Sir Snootch


"Gamers don't sleep. They just nap between levels."

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Ok...in regards to the last post.


I think this was a terrible mistake by the wardrobe dept. I'm betting they used some body doubles to maybe get a few more shots of their bodies laying in the cage, and when they did whomever was responsible for it didn't catch the mistake. You can see that the positioning of their bodies is even off. How is it that his knees are near hers in one photo, and then in the other on his knee is up near her pockets?



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lockesladyness


I cried, "Oh, Lady Midnight, I fear that you grow old, the stars eat your body and the wind makes you cold." "If we cry now," she said, "it will just be ignored."

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Posts: 17239
Date: Nov 9, 2006
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i am looking at this episode thru the 'man of science man of faith' concept...


science without religion is lame
religion without science is blind.


there is of course the question that ben brought up about the spinal surgeon falling out of the sky... faith brought jack to this pooint or did science... was the plane brought down on purpose? this question keeps popping up...


jack at first refuses to do the surgery...'do you thinik i trust you?' ben responds with 'i am dissappointed with your decision.' trust goes with faith... ben responded scientifically... leads me to believe that this was just another part of the behavior modification process to gage where jack is in his growth/learning process... does jack have empathy for his patient? does he get involved with the process or the person??
faith=person
science=event


locke and sayid... sayid says 'i know what i can see...' faith or science or both? locke responds with 'i knoe eko died for a reason...' and goes off tofind stick... scripture... how much more faithful can you get??


juliet takes kate to jack and kate obeys without knowing why other than if she doesn't sawyer will be killed... (we don't kill people... i think they use this as a hollow threat...) kate leads with her heart and follows the decisions of her heart... it is both her strength and weakness... and part of faith...  jack asks if she believes them... she answers...'i have to...' a very faith based statement


sawyer wants kate to have hope... this is what faith also gives... science, it seems, takes hope away by keeping them bound to this place.. hope...belief... faith...gives a future...is faith a lie? a justification? something that will give false hope? or true hope? can science do the same?


at the previews it sez fear held them prisoner... is this what science has done?


hope will set them free... is this what faith can do?


just food for thought....



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ladymod
LionQueen


It Doesn't Matter Who We Were Before ...

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Date: Nov 9, 2006
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snootch2danootch wrote:

OK..I scared myself again...... I feel like The MisFiT againIs there a reason that in two back to back images (screen caps from lost-media) that they could mess up the placement of the hole in the knee of Sawyers pants?


http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1196&pos=793


Here's the two images closer up.


1st one Click to view full size image


2nd one


Click to view full size image


Is there a reason for this? Was it put in on purpose?



-- Edited by snootch2danootch at 06:40, 2006-11-09


His knee is near her butt in the second because it is bent. So, he just bent his knee in between frames. I don't know why, but somehow the hole closed when he did.

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Sir Snootch


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LionQueen wrote:
His knee is near her butt in the second because it is bent. So, he just bent his knee in between frames. I don't know why, but somehow the hole closed when he did.


Sorry Lion, but I thought the same thing until I noticed that way he is laying. In the first pic the knee with the hole in it is the lower (on the botto/near the ground) and right behind her knee.


The second pic shows that the kneee that has the hole in it is the top (away from the ground), and pretty much sitting on her hip.


OK...from the perspective of the spoon position that they are in. If you are in the place that Sawyer is (behind Kate) it is not humanly possible to put your right leg/leg on the ground up or even near her hip. Unless you are turning your whole body away, and he hasn't changed the way he's facing her at that point. So I still think that it's all a snafu on their part that they didn't catch.



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Sir Snootch


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juliet takes kate to jack and kate obeys without knowing why other than if she doesn't sawyer will be killed... (we don't kill people... i think they use this as a hollow threat...) kate leads with her heart and follows the decisions of her heart... it is both her strength and weakness... and part of faith...  jack asks if she believes them... she answers...'i have to...' a very faith based statement


 


LL.. I think this is one of the cornerstones of the mystery of the others right now. Are they indeed the "Good Ones" that Ben and Juliet claim to be? The only one I believe to have it in them to kill right now is Pickett, but I would have to think that i'd be in a similiar state if Angie was killed (regardless of the situation that caused it). I do think that the next person to get killed is going to be Pickett, and it will be Juliet that kills him. She will see that he will not settle until he kills one of the Losties, and with that he's going against the teachings and culture of not killing that they are trying to subscribe to.


I believe that they put this up due to Kates "Faith" in Sawyer being good at heart beneath all of his gruff exterior. It was also tesing her faith in the one person who she seems to have the deepest connection with. If you go back to the very begining of the first season. Jack was the first one to tell her that nothing in her past made a difference on the island, and her restlessness forces her to not choose who she truely loves. So going to Jack to save Sawyer was her way of following her faith. She has Faith in Jack to do the right thing, and I believe that's the reason for the heartbroken look she has when he tells her to leave, and that they were done while talking through the glass. Then her faith in Jack was proven worth it to her when she was handed the radio. She showed a bit of surprise, but then you could see a bit of comfort in her face that Jack had come through for her.



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lockesladyness


I cried, "Oh, Lady Midnight, I fear that you grow old, the stars eat your body and the wind makes you cold." "If we cry now," she said, "it will just be ignored."

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Date: Nov 10, 2006
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kate's feelings for jack are indeed so different from her feelings for sawyer... i don't think she really loves either one tho... her husband, kevin, and her girlhood friend , tom, were her two greast loves... jack is someone she admires and looks up to and wants to spend time with because he has faith in her as she does in him... he will protect her and, in a way, fix her... but love? i can't say it is...


sawyer is an attraction but not love. she submitted to his desire and for sex only when she thought he was going to be killed. she never said the words 'i love you...' to him... and i don't know if sawyer actuallly meant his or if it just something that is supposed to be said after sex...


the big question tho is...will she die and follow the other females who have bumpety-bumped? or will this break the cycle?


...and i still think, when the series ends, the only solution to this triangle is for kate to die....



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ladymod
Island_Reigns


Yay Lost!!

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Thanks for posting this in the night out thread, Des... http://www.filmfodder.com/tv/lost/archives/003350.shtml


It's a great recap. Kind of long but it's good and has some humorous points.



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LionQueen


It Doesn't Matter Who We Were Before ...

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It's really long, but I left a comment..

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lockesladyness


I cried, "Oh, Lady Midnight, I fear that you grow old, the stars eat your body and the wind makes you cold." "If we cry now," she said, "it will just be ignored."

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Date: Nov 15, 2006
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interesting little summary.... looks like we are becoming much more observant and catch so much of this... or the writers are just being more apparant...

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ladymod
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